Hawaii Film Blog

Wednesday, December 07, 2005
Yunjin Kim Rejected "Geisha" Role
Finally! A chance for me to blog about the heated political and cultural controversy surrounding Rob Marshall's upcoming Oscar contender "Memoirs of a Geisha." Here's the Hawaii connection: Yunjin Kim who plays "Sun" on our beloved Hawaii-based series "Lost," was tapped to play the geisha role that Michelle Yeoh eventually took.

Scotland's Sunday Herald reported, "For five hours, Yoon-jin Kim pondered a supporting role in the $85-million movie Memoirs Of A Geisha, based on the 1997 best-selling novel by Arthur Golden. 'Since it was a film by Steven Spielberg and Rob Marshall, I first thought maybe I should just close my eyes tight and just do it....Even if it is Hollywood, I don’t want to start by playing a Japanese geisha. It’s a matter of pride,' she said."

Well, I'll withhold judgment on all the Japanese/Chinese, exoticization/misrepresentation/artistic license stuff until I actually watch the film, but...white guy writes geisha book, white readers buy geisha book, white guy produces geisha movie, white guy directs geisha movie, white audiences watch geisha movie...doesn't bode well.

hats off to her. can't say much about zhang ziyi and michelle yeoh. especially yeoh, who isn't really in need of money.

She killed 2 birds with one stone

She maintained her korean pride
&
Rejected Hollywoods idiotic portray of Asians

hats off to her

totally agree. i have more respect for her now.

me too

too bad, she looks way more suitable for the role than Yeoh.

but it's cool of her.

Only Asians know Asians not white people or anyone else. Had that experience when we were discussing about 'Paradise of the Blind' today. Western thought processes are completely different from Eastern thought processes

It was said that her words included that she had "pride" because she did not want to start off her movie career with the role of a prostitute. Not because it's a Japanese role.

THAT is ignorance. Geisha are not prostitutes.

or it coulda been she didn't wanna play a japanese person. or didn't wanna go with the western stereotypes of asian women or geishas in particular.

i wanna read this from more than one source though. to make sure.

If she said "prostitute" then it refers directly to the role of geisha, demonstrating ignorance towards what geisha are.

Otherwise, it would make more sense, although I have to say, if she doesn't want to portray a western stereotype of Asian women, she made such a GREAT decision to be one on LOST. [I <3 that show though.]

but junjin didn't say the word "prostitute" yet. im not sure of what she exactly means. i first assumed was because she didn't wanna play a japanese . and a stereotypical role at that. but yet again. her portrayal on Lost playing a submissive korean women who looks like shes gonna cry every minute... is stereotypical as well,

Yeahh, she's the big girl`~~~~

Zhang ziyi has a damn low repu among young Chinese. She's just playing for the westerners.

I don't find her beautiful at all, Zhang ziyi.
I don't find her sexy......f3
I don't find her charming...f3
I don't find her intelligent..f3


what the hell's the problem with me today...

yeah, i've never really found zhang ziyi, or any other famous chinese actresses in hollywood (michelle yeoh, lucy liu) really that attractive

I read somewhere that she DID say the word "prostitute" in her statement.

Also, the role in "Geisha" is not stereotypical. It's actually included in Japanese culture. Annie said the makeup is wrong though, which bothers her.

And yes, her Lost character is very very stereotypical.

really? i heard geisha term and its conontations thrown around a lot. i think porn is an example. i heard they try to dress up random asian girls whether youre japanese or not as a geisha or a qipao (as my friend told me). sounds really degrading and disgusting. this goes with the other dumb asian roles for women. and geisha is not ingrained into japanese culture persay. its apart of the history yes but most people do not even take part in it.

but i agree. the writers of Lost liked Yunjin so much that she originally tried out for Kate's role but decided to write her into the script. and guess what. those writers write up the most stereotypical asian roles. submissive korean women. mean husband whos too over protective .

geisha is nothing more than a high class prostitute. they would be equivalent to courtesans, mistresses, and "hostesses" in the west.

It doesn't really matter whether it's ignorant to perceive Geishas as whores, a lot of people do have that percpetion and playing such a role will damage one's image. Moreover, the Korean equivalent of Geishas, the Suljeep agasshees, are practically whores.

Yes, the connotations are thrown around a lot, but in the movie, they're depicting a somewhat more correct image of Geisha, showing [supposedly, I Haven't seen the movie, but read the book] all the training that girls go through to become Geisha, all the skills they need to know, etc.

Porn is not a good place to get your correct images of other cultures. Any porn is degrading.

Geisha aspects are ingrained into the culture. Tea ceremony was a big part of being a geisha, playing certain instruments, special kimonos, hair styles, etc.

History is history. Just because people in the present do not practice it still does not mean it shouldn't be on film.

zhang ziyi sucks

yeah. im aware of the training you have to go through. learn poetry music instruments etc.
im not saying that history shouldn't be displayed obvisouly. just saying maybe yunjin didn't want to subject herself to those director's version of such apart of history.

so i guess this makes zhang ziyi into a whore

"Well, I'll withhold judgment on all the Japanese/Chinese, exoticization/misrepresentation/artistic license stuff until I actually watch the film, but...white guy writes geisha book, white readers buy geisha book, white guy produces geisha movie, white guy directs geisha movie, white audiences watch geisha movie...doesn't bode well."
===========================
she seems she doesnt like it that a white guy made the movie . and the stereotypes involved with their thinking . hmm i dunno

Fair, however she should not have made the stereotype worse by saying "prostitute" [if in fact, she did].

geishas are in fact a cultural icon for high class, traditional japanese. its not that people had to take part of it~ i mean, there are lots of things ingrained into culture which the people do not take part in. for instance, up until this century the forbidden city was exclusive to the emperor and its one of the most well known sites in china. the general population probably never even got to see it, but its still a chinese landmark.

same goes for geishas. in modern day, their dances are for people who have an eye for classical japanese taste; most people dont watch geisha ceremonies because nowdays, geisha are extremely rare. To be trained the the classical entertainment is not as appealing to women nowadays since so much influencce from the West has taken over the entertainment industry.



incorrect. you are thinking of a "mama-san".

a geisha is a performer, and a very high class one at that.

geishas were actually the rivals to courtesans when they first became popular in the 1700s; geishas are only perceived as prostitutes because they were confined to the same district as the brothels. geishas dance, act, sing, and play instruments; because their services are so high, they only get wealthy customers. if they so happen to date one of their customers, does it make them prostitutes?

when an actress dates her producer, is she a whore?

you know, before i was banned for the 2nd time, I made a thread saying EXACTLY that.

I made a thread about how Arthur Holden was an asiaphile. I mean, the guy for sure has some issues with japanese culture, especially about its women.

I wish I could find that thread again.

edit:

by the way, this just makes me lose more respect for all the chinese actresses involved in this proejct.

well yeah im aware of how geishas were apart of japanese culture and history. but possibly . from what it seems yunjin didnt like it that white people were portraying asian women. but kinda hypocritical since she plays a stereotypical role herself.

Arthur Holden is a japanophile, plain and simple.

He can hide behind his intellectual facade but at heart, he is a japanophile.

that book is one of the worst pieces of crap I've ever read.

While I was reading it, I thought the author was telling a true story but then I did some more research and realized it was all fiction.

I was like, "WTF?"

i never read the book. but was Memoirs of a Geisha about a girl who sold her virginity. thats what someone told me a lot of people sold their virginity however in the past.

its basically about a girl who became a geisha and tells her life from when she was young to when she was old.

it had no real point or purpose to the plot. At first, I thought it was ok cause I thought it was a biography of a real geisha but then I realized it was all fake.

It's total b.s.

And now they're making a movie about it? It should appeal to japanophiles everywhere.

I jsut can't believe all those chinese actresses agreed to this piece of $hit. they must not care casue its japanese culture they are misrepresenting, not chinese.

What a simple way to portray the novel!

Anyways you should read what chickery posted.

its not like i would sum it up like that. but when i asked my friend (when referring to the movie) thats what she said

It's FICTION. Fiction = fake. It took PARTS from a real person's life and then made it into a NOVEL. FAKE. FICTION.

So you would hate any story that tells the life of say an imaginary person? Do you hate Harry Potter? It's the story of this boy who is a wizard. DAMN IT"S GOOD. But wait. Oh crap. It's fake. FAKE! WHAT B.S.!!!

There are very artistic parts to the novel. Just because you think it's a piece of $hit doesn't mean it IS. If it was, I don't think there would have been so many copies of the book sold. [Just so you know, I got recommendations for the book from my cousin, who is Chinese, and my friends who are Korean, read it on their own and loved it as well.] And I don't think there would be a movie made from it. Maybe they found the roles to be challenging. Being/portraying a geisha is not an easy thing to do.

most of those situations in japan during that time are a little more complex than selling one's virginity.

many high class families were destroyed through war and their money and esteem was gone... when they ahd nothing to live on, girls and women had little choice but to turn to prostituion to make livings for their families. geishas and courtesans came from these high class families whos daughters had extremely traditional and strict education in the performing arts, therefore the courtesans were allowed to pick their suitors and the geishas didnt have to resort to prostitution.

Give them a break , if you want to point fingers point it at the directors.

Reading and comprehension are 2 entirely different things. You didn't read the back of the book, where it firmly implies that the story wasn't true? I read the book about 5 years ago, and thought it was a heart warming story.

Yunjin wouldnt look right as a geisha. They needed someone with a face like Zhang.

here's a conflicting quote by Kim link
that's from a direct interview. looks like she just didn't like the role offered her.

personally I would question the accuracy of the sunday herald article as i think the author could be misquoting kim to fit it into his zhang ziyi story.

geishas are supposed to be average looking women.... even if many think that zhang isnt the best looking actress, she certainly is considered a chinese beauty by many. besides, they didnt even do the makeup corretly in the movie~ i dont think they were thinking about these things when casting the movie

zhang, gongli, and yoeh are sellouts. but it isn't that surprising...

Yunjin might have made a wrong decision tho. Being a sellout might boost your career.

I was talking about the facial features. Ziyi looks more like those geishas in those traditional Japanese paintings than Yunjin.

Yunjin Kim when describing geishas as prostitutes was correct. Goldens(idiotic white japanophile) book depicts Geishas as prostitutues. Mineko Iwasaki the Geisha who was interviewed by Golden and the same Geisha whos story was based on the book felt betrayed when Golden published the book. Apparently Golden only cared about the stereotypical aspects of japanese woman. What pissed off Mineko even more was how Golden portrayed Geishas as prostitutes. Mineko was so angry and felt so betrayed and dishonored at Goldens work that she denounced his book and even wrote her own memoirs and published them.

Idiotic Hollywood should tell Minekos(a real Geisha) story rather than the story written by some pasty white guy. Too bad Hollywood is controlled by morons.

fu-k HOLLYWOOD
fu-k GOLDEN

Whoever said 술집 아가씨 is geisha is wrong. 기생 I think is the best equivalent to geisha.

That's hollywood for ya. And some of their decisions make no sense at all, like hiring a chinese production company to remake R-point for the american audiance (Just. What. The. Hell?).

They are even re-making a korean movie(forgot the name). Its about 2 border gaurds one from north and one from south korea. They go on duty and eventually become friends. Hollywoods remake will feature Caucasian Hispanics and white people replacing north and south koreans. What JOY!!!

I heard Oldboy is being remade in India. And also "Whispering Corridors" is being remade in America just like "The Ring".

Joint Security Area. That remake makes no freaking sense either.

Joint Security Area is unique to Korean DMZ. They don't even have a JSA on the US-Mexico border, its historically unique to Korea, and PLUS the US/Mexico border is missing the tension and suspense of the DMZ.

YManchun is absolutely right. You don't risk starting a war by crossing the US/Mexican border.

oh i never said they sold their virginity out of nothing. the case is similar to many other countries as well. and not just japan.


well i was readin that article ran min put out. she says that she wants to do whatever she can to suceed in hollywood. but i suppose she just didnt like the portrayal that this director put out. im sure she was given details about her role. and probably just didnt want to be involved in such a production.

So therefore....Yunjin Kim is WRONG in describing geisha as prostitutes. Golden was wrong, so how would that make Yunjin RIGHT?

zhang ziyi and michelle yeoh are definitely sellouts.

but i wouldn't say gong li is. she's already internationally popular.